Ben Shapiro and Bill Maher clash over morality and the Bible

Ben Shapiro and Bill Maher sparred over morality and the Bible on "Real Time with Bill Maher: Overtime" Friday, and the conservative Orthodox Jewish commentator received an unexpected reaction from the liberal comedian's Los Angeles audience.

Maher, the star of the anti-religion documentary "Religulous" and a well-known atheist, said the Bible contains "nonsense" and "wickedness."

"If God wrote the book, how could there be 'things we don't agree with?' It's got to be perfect because it's written by you-know-who, or it's just not perfect because it was written by people, obviously, and it's full of nonsense and wickedness," Maher said, drawing laughter from the audience.

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Shapiro and the "Real Time" host discussed the Bible as part of a broader conversation about Shapiro's new book, "Lions and Scavengers." The book argues that society is made up of two contrasting personality types: lions, who seek to build, and scavengers, who seek to destroy. Maher then asked Shapiro whether he would feel comfortable being compared to German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, whose work was highly critical of Christianity.

The Daily Wire co-founder argued that Nietzsche's criticisms of Judeo-Christian religion - suggesting it encourages weakness over strength - were unfair. Shapiro added that those who believe in the Bible should also have faith that virtue produces better outcomes in life than not behaving virtuously.

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He quoted Deuteronomy 30:19: "choose life, so that you and your children may live," and said it was a foundational belief of Judaism. 

When Shapiro told Maher he wasn't going to try to force him to believe in the Torah, Maher launched into an anti-religion critique. Shapiro countered that the Bible provided the moral foundation not only for him, as a religious Jew, but also for Maher, an atheist.

"Bill, you and I agree on morality I'd say at least 87 percent-" Shapiro said.

"Morality… but not from the Bible," Maher interrupted.

"Why do you and I agree on morality like 87.5 percent? I'm a religious Jew, you're an atheist - why do we agree on those things?" Shapiro asked. "We probably grew up a few miles from each other in Western society that has several thousand years of Biblical history behind it. So you can think that you hit that triple and formed your own morality, but the reality is you were born morally on third base."

When Shapiro concluded, the audience erupted in laughter and applause. Maher responded that Western society derived its morality from the Enlightenment, which he said was anti-religious. He argued that America's Founding Fathers weren't "particularly Christy," while Shapiro pointed out that Thomas Jefferson compiled a version of the Bible focused on morality with the miracles removed. 

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When Maher When Maher asked why people should continue believing in the Bible in modern times, Shapiro responded that "cut flowers die," arguing that a society that severs itself from the roots of its morality cannot sustain its values indefinitely.